Krasskova is sticking her foot in her mouth and talking out of her ass again. https://krasskova.wordpress.com/2015/01/29/impossible-standards-of-devotion/ Oh noes we are doing it wrong again. Rolls eyes.
Hey Galina, way to make yourself sound more pretentious and elitist then some of the Asatruar on Asatru Lore. Do you think writing a few books makes you some sort of qualified expert? You were a decent person to look at when you were talking from your own perspective, now you have turned into a cultish quack twitching whenever someone takes away some "power" you think you have.
Now here are some real life reasons people don't do it the way you do.
1. They haven't been asked to yet.
2. They(gasp I know this might come as a surprise) don't have the time, energy, or mental spoons yet. Real life may be pooping all over them. Not everyone goes the Catholic route of lighting a zillion candles when life hands them lemons.
3. They may not have that type of devotional paradigmn. What someone has a personal relationship with the Gods that differes from you, say it aint so. The Gods may be asking them for different things, oh noes.
IN other words, stick your nose back in your own business,(You can start by getting rid of the idea of tradition and mystery for reconstruction, this isn't BTW wicca, and you aint Gardner) clean your own house and stay the hell out of others. We aren't jealous of you, you cultic power hungry quack, we choose our own way of dealing with our Gods.
Showing posts with label BS and refute of BS. Show all posts
Showing posts with label BS and refute of BS. Show all posts
Wednesday, February 4, 2015
Tuesday, January 21, 2014
Wiccan Rede, cursing, and preachy twits
So it has come to my attn, that certain segments of the Wiccan population are upset by cursing. Apparently, they feel they can go about and beat people over the head and shoulders with the Wiccan Rede. Apparently, the Wiccan Rede is only Do what thou wilt, an it harm none.
http://alisonleighlilly.tumblr.com/post/73960956295/why-im-not-offended-by-the-threefold-law
Well let me edgemacate you. Not it most certainly is not. Here is the long Rede, taken off of wikipedia(apparently google is not a tool that some Wiccans use, nor any type of research). linky.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiccan_Rede
History behind it
http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/rede.shtml
http://alisonleighlilly.tumblr.com/post/73960956295/why-im-not-offended-by-the-threefold-law
Well let me edgemacate you. Not it most certainly is not. Here is the long Rede, taken off of wikipedia(apparently google is not a tool that some Wiccans use, nor any type of research). linky.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiccan_Rede
History behind it
http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/rede.shtml
The Long Rede[edit]
In 1974 a complete twenty-six line poem entitled "The Wiccan Rede" was published in the neo-Pagan magazine Earth Religion News. Each line contained a rhymed couplet laid out as a single line, the last line being the familiar "short rede" couplet beginning "Eight words...".
This poem was shortly followed by another, slightly different, version, entitled the "Rede Of The Wiccae", which was published in Green Egg magazine by Lady Gwen Thompson. She ascribed it to her grandmother Adriana Porter, and claimed that the earlier published text was distorted from "its original form". The poem has since been very widely circulated and has appeared in other versions and layouts, with additional or variant passages. It is commonly known as the "Long Rede".
Thompson's version of the Long Rede is:
Bide the Wiccan Laws ye must In Perfect Love and Perfect Trust.
Live an’ let live - Fairly take an’ fairly give.
Cast the Circle thrice about To keep all evil spirits out.
To bind the spell every time - Let the spell be spake in rhyme.
Soft of eye an’ light of touch - Speak little, listen much.
Deosil go by the waxing Moon - Sing and dance the Wiccan rune.
Widdershins go when the Moon doth wane, An’ the Werewolf howls by the dread Wolfsbane.
When the Lady’s Moon is new, Kiss thy hand to Her times two.
When the Moon rides at Her peak Then your heart’s desire seek.
Heed the Northwind’s mighty gale - Lock the door and drop the sail.
When the wind comes from the South, Love will kiss thee on the mouth.
When the wind blows from the East, Expect the new and set the feast.
When the West wind blows o’er thee, Departed spirits restless be.
Nine woods in the Cauldron go - Burn them quick an’ burn them slow.
Elder be ye Lady’s tree - Burn it not or cursed ye’ll be.
When the Wheel begins to turn - Let the Beltane fires burn.
When the Wheel has turned a Yule, Light the Log an’ let Pan rule.
Heed ye flower bush an’ tree - By the Lady Blessèd Be.
Where the rippling waters go Cast a stone an’ truth ye’ll know.
When ye have need, Hearken not to others greed.
With the fool no season spend Or be counted as his friend.
Merry meet an’ merry part - Bright the cheeks an’ warm the heart.
Mind the Threefold Law ye should - Three times bad an’ three times good.
When misfortune is enow, Wear the Blue Star on thy brow.
True in love ever be Unless thy lover’s false to thee.
Eight words ye Wiccan Rede fulfill - An’ it harm none, Do what ye will.
Live an’ let live - Fairly take an’ fairly give.
Cast the Circle thrice about To keep all evil spirits out.
To bind the spell every time - Let the spell be spake in rhyme.
Soft of eye an’ light of touch - Speak little, listen much.
Deosil go by the waxing Moon - Sing and dance the Wiccan rune.
Widdershins go when the Moon doth wane, An’ the Werewolf howls by the dread Wolfsbane.
When the Lady’s Moon is new, Kiss thy hand to Her times two.
When the Moon rides at Her peak Then your heart’s desire seek.
Heed the Northwind’s mighty gale - Lock the door and drop the sail.
When the wind comes from the South, Love will kiss thee on the mouth.
When the wind blows from the East, Expect the new and set the feast.
When the West wind blows o’er thee, Departed spirits restless be.
Nine woods in the Cauldron go - Burn them quick an’ burn them slow.
Elder be ye Lady’s tree - Burn it not or cursed ye’ll be.
When the Wheel begins to turn - Let the Beltane fires burn.
When the Wheel has turned a Yule, Light the Log an’ let Pan rule.
Heed ye flower bush an’ tree - By the Lady Blessèd Be.
Where the rippling waters go Cast a stone an’ truth ye’ll know.
When ye have need, Hearken not to others greed.
With the fool no season spend Or be counted as his friend.
Merry meet an’ merry part - Bright the cheeks an’ warm the heart.
Mind the Threefold Law ye should - Three times bad an’ three times good.
When misfortune is enow, Wear the Blue Star on thy brow.
True in love ever be Unless thy lover’s false to thee.
Eight words ye Wiccan Rede fulfill - An’ it harm none, Do what ye will.
================================
If you are going to ethically shame people, than you damn well better know the full Rede. Rede by the way is not law, it translates to advice. Oh and here is some more history... The Rede probably came from Crowley.
Oh and btw, Wiccans back in the 70's and 80's, especially the BTW, had no issue with cursing. I have heard of a story, of a coven, doing a spell, to hurt a man who had raped one of their coven members. He lost his member in a bar fight, after the spell.
The person who brought this to light, is arguing that no one should be offended by Wiccans preaching this philosophy. Because that is how they are. No, that isn't how they are. This is the love and light crowd, who can't deal with the real world, and who don't understand what conflict resolution are. This is the love and light crowd who get offended by Conservative Christians being Conservative Christians, but feel that they have the same right. Mind you, all the Christians I know, are not raging buttwipes, who can't seem to discuss things like rational people.
Biding by the Wiccan Rede does not mean you have to be a doormat. It does not mean you can't tackle conflict head on. It does not mean you need to be a twit.
Oh and when I was Wiccan, I wasn't BTW. I was an eccletic type, who managed to still know the damn history, better than some BTW's and know the full Rede, know it was advice, and critically think. Time to get your head out of your arse peeps and shaddup.
Saturday, December 7, 2013
God Graveyard and after effects
So apparently, there not being enough shit in the world to worry about, we have BNP Pagans getting up in arms about this: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/10/31/college-atheists-place-god-graveyard-on-campus-200-tombstones-of-gods-we-no-longer-worship/ Yup a group of atheists and the like made a God graveyard on their university campus. Cue instrumental music of woe and doom.
Oh wait, I don't hear Morrigan, Loki(he's yawning)Cernunnos or any of my other Gods really being angry. I hear silence and so what. Why? Because it's a group of atheists who don't believe anyway. Moreover, there is bigger shit here to worry about. Loki has got his followers to heal. Morrigan has got wars to chew over and other stuff she needs done. Cernunnos has got what he wants. What a group of college students does, does not register.
Moreover, the Gods can fight their own battles. The fight that is going on, is why the hell doesn't this group recognize Pagans and realize our Gods aren't dead. Aka it's about ego. and it's bullshit.
Then sitting there saying that what you do is somehow more imp than what the Steph of the smurfette principle does because you teach and write vs the fact she works by crafting baby blankets for poor infants in the hospital ward is utter heinous bullshit. Your work is no more imp than others.
You want to get up in arms about something imp, then get up in arms about people being in prison for no good reason, other then drugs and being addicted. Get up in arms about the number of people who are homeless. Get up in arms over the fact that food stamps are being reduced. Get up in arms about our civil rights being shit on. Get up in arms about people not having free speech if you aren't of the same political party or you aren't politically correct. In short, there is more real world shit that needs more to be paid attn to, then a college group exercising their 1st amendment rights that our vets give their lives, time and freedom for.
And btw for those who read my blog give Steph some love and money and fabric, she needs quilting supplies. She's actually doing something imp. http://stephyjh.wordpress.com/2013/11/05/asking-for-help/
This meany pooh pooh headed Pagan has. I don't have much but I gave what I could and I dug through my fabric stash. I dare you to do better. I challenge you to show me up.
Oh wait, I don't hear Morrigan, Loki(he's yawning)Cernunnos or any of my other Gods really being angry. I hear silence and so what. Why? Because it's a group of atheists who don't believe anyway. Moreover, there is bigger shit here to worry about. Loki has got his followers to heal. Morrigan has got wars to chew over and other stuff she needs done. Cernunnos has got what he wants. What a group of college students does, does not register.
Moreover, the Gods can fight their own battles. The fight that is going on, is why the hell doesn't this group recognize Pagans and realize our Gods aren't dead. Aka it's about ego. and it's bullshit.
Then sitting there saying that what you do is somehow more imp than what the Steph of the smurfette principle does because you teach and write vs the fact she works by crafting baby blankets for poor infants in the hospital ward is utter heinous bullshit. Your work is no more imp than others.
You want to get up in arms about something imp, then get up in arms about people being in prison for no good reason, other then drugs and being addicted. Get up in arms about the number of people who are homeless. Get up in arms over the fact that food stamps are being reduced. Get up in arms about our civil rights being shit on. Get up in arms about people not having free speech if you aren't of the same political party or you aren't politically correct. In short, there is more real world shit that needs more to be paid attn to, then a college group exercising their 1st amendment rights that our vets give their lives, time and freedom for.
And btw for those who read my blog give Steph some love and money and fabric, she needs quilting supplies. She's actually doing something imp. http://stephyjh.wordpress.com/2013/11/05/asking-for-help/
This meany pooh pooh headed Pagan has. I don't have much but I gave what I could and I dug through my fabric stash. I dare you to do better. I challenge you to show me up.
Tuesday, October 29, 2013
my take on Star Foster and her blog on if you have a shitty life it's because you worship shitty Gods
Her blog can be found here: http://starfosterblog.wordpress.com/2013/10/28/square-gods-we-are-what-we-worship/ I found out about it by reading Fluid Morality's rant on it. I think she has some very cogent points. http://fluidmorality.wordpress.com/2013/10/29/victim-blame-game/#comments I also happen to like Ruadhan's poits as well. http://thespiae.oddmodout.com/2013/10/29/close-but-no-bananas-you-have-no-bananas-today/
Way to go, labeling a bunch of Polytheists(hard or soft), who have relationships with the more uncomfortable Gods, as a bunch of kids looking to spice up their life. It isn't because they have anything deeper, than to get rid of ennui. Thanks, I didn't realize I had nominated you my cranky mom or English victorian judgemental aunt.
Plus, really, way to insult those Deities who have different spheres of influence then those that may look "safe". Eris may be scary, and the Greek Goddess of Chaos and disorder, but sometimes we need that to shake us up. I can't believe you had the cajones to label her as a Bad Goddess. The only ones I know talk lightly of her, are Discordians, and they have developed a relationship with her. It's one thing to critique and say you need to rethink your stance, it's quite another to blatantly insult and moralize what Gods are good Gods vs Bad Gods.
You go and say, that Gods aren't plug and play devices. However then you go on about how these so called "square Gods are better". You may feel that they are better for you now. However are you choosing them or you them? This isn't fluffy bunny Wicca, where you choose a God from a list with it's properties, this is Polytheism. The Gods usually choose their followers, and it takes a while for things to develop. They establish relationships and trust is formed.
Your take on Gods, is very two dimensional and naive. If Hestia so wishes, she will rearrange your life, to make things go her way. It is not only the trickster Gods that do so. Idunna is a Gardener, if she thinks you need weeds pulled out of your life, she will not hesitate to do so. I wouldn't even go so far as to label Zeus as square either(have you read his myths? he wields lightning, he's the Patriarch of a Pantheon. Mayhaps understanding the drama and hellaballoo involved in politics and power would dissuade you of his squareness).
All of the Gods have points that we are comfortable with and points that make us feel very uncomfortable. That even holds true for the Christian Gods(Yahweh and the flood, Jesus anger at the money lender at the temple, Demeter causing winter and famine when her daughter was taken, ). The Dark Gods are more upfront with their uncomfortable parts. While Loki is a trickster, and has his scary parts(and people should think carefully before taking him on, even if he is poking you, we do have choices in this) I have found in my experience he is also very honest.
You say Frigga is less interesting than Loki, which is insulting to her. She isn't some frumpy house frau lady. She's the matriarch of the Norse Pantheon and she isn't above kicking some ass along the way. If you choose to still stick her in the whole stay at home mother routine of the Gods, maybe you should realize, that those mothers are usually feared and respected and weren't above ordering, rearranging, using cast iron skillets on dense noggins, and tough love.
Now the one that really gets me. (oh lets be frank all of it gets my goat) She's insulting my Gods.He is family and i love him. And one of the things you don't do to those I love, is speak bad about them. You don't say bad things about my kids, you don't talk bad about my husband, and you certainly don't talk shit about my Dads.
Loki has done many things in my life, and no it wasn't to cure ennui. He took me by the scruff of my neck(with my other Gods help. Cernunnos certainly wasn't quiet) and showed me I was in an abusive relationship. He Socratically made me think and helped me choose better choices. If she had bothered to do more basic research, (ok if she had bothered to look beyond preconceptions, prejudices, and do her duty since she wants to act as a theologian in this article, she might have found things are a lot richer and complex then she puts) she might find that he does that a lot for those that worship him, beyond the Tom Hiddleness.
Loki has more depth to him, then the fact that he is a shape changing, gender bending, God of pranks(if you wish to look at him lightly) or the Norse Satan, if you wish to take the more hard line Asatru stance. For one thing, to many of his worshippers, he's a pretty darn good psychologist who makes you see what you are doing, through stages and changes you for the better. Not many other Gods can do it, because for some of his followers, we were broken, before he took us and duct taped us together. We certainly owe him more than, thanks for all the fish but Star thinks you are scary so we are gonna go play with Thor now.
Then she goes on to say, that she'd rather have Dagda on her side then Morrigan. Really lady? Have you READ any of the Irish myths. Should I remind you of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%BA_Chulainn, Several great grandfathers before him had pissed off the Morrigan by disrespecting her and she cursed that family for 7 generations.
The Morrigan has a temper, there are some Gods it's best to tread lightly with, even if you are going to caution against. You are going to spurn the Goddess of Fate! I mean I like, and more importantly respect the Morrigan. She is a lot more than the bitching badass of war. She has a lot of depth to her. Thanks so much for continuing the prejudice that she's just a Bitch(I asked permission if she was ok with this)
Besides someone who is in the military, Morrigan works well with someone who is going into law(being a lawyer, cop, advocate etc). She does have a temper. She also loves deeply and has passion. She however also does have an iron steel spined and shows the more tough side, then her love side. The best example I would use is an Irish Matriarch.
Not that the Dagda doesn't have his own temper and dark side. Reading some of the myths may show you, just who you are dealing with. You are white washing the Gods you feel comfortable with. You are putting modern values on those Gods, and forgetting they don't forgive like Jesus. That isn't a very good or safe idea and can get you in trouble.
I think next time lady you go off and pedantically preach about what others need to avoid, you should take some time and try not to insult entire Pantheons, even those you think are "good". Maybe actually read beyond one or two myths that have been sanitized for readers. Actually try to get to know the Gods. Knock on their doors respectfully, offer tea and coffee. Maybe then, once you have done some work on this, I will take your blathering of you are who you worship, with more respect and seriousness.
Way to go, labeling a bunch of Polytheists(hard or soft), who have relationships with the more uncomfortable Gods, as a bunch of kids looking to spice up their life. It isn't because they have anything deeper, than to get rid of ennui. Thanks, I didn't realize I had nominated you my cranky mom or English victorian judgemental aunt.
Plus, really, way to insult those Deities who have different spheres of influence then those that may look "safe". Eris may be scary, and the Greek Goddess of Chaos and disorder, but sometimes we need that to shake us up. I can't believe you had the cajones to label her as a Bad Goddess. The only ones I know talk lightly of her, are Discordians, and they have developed a relationship with her. It's one thing to critique and say you need to rethink your stance, it's quite another to blatantly insult and moralize what Gods are good Gods vs Bad Gods.
You go and say, that Gods aren't plug and play devices. However then you go on about how these so called "square Gods are better". You may feel that they are better for you now. However are you choosing them or you them? This isn't fluffy bunny Wicca, where you choose a God from a list with it's properties, this is Polytheism. The Gods usually choose their followers, and it takes a while for things to develop. They establish relationships and trust is formed.
Your take on Gods, is very two dimensional and naive. If Hestia so wishes, she will rearrange your life, to make things go her way. It is not only the trickster Gods that do so. Idunna is a Gardener, if she thinks you need weeds pulled out of your life, she will not hesitate to do so. I wouldn't even go so far as to label Zeus as square either(have you read his myths? he wields lightning, he's the Patriarch of a Pantheon. Mayhaps understanding the drama and hellaballoo involved in politics and power would dissuade you of his squareness).
All of the Gods have points that we are comfortable with and points that make us feel very uncomfortable. That even holds true for the Christian Gods(Yahweh and the flood, Jesus anger at the money lender at the temple, Demeter causing winter and famine when her daughter was taken, ). The Dark Gods are more upfront with their uncomfortable parts. While Loki is a trickster, and has his scary parts(and people should think carefully before taking him on, even if he is poking you, we do have choices in this) I have found in my experience he is also very honest.
You say Frigga is less interesting than Loki, which is insulting to her. She isn't some frumpy house frau lady. She's the matriarch of the Norse Pantheon and she isn't above kicking some ass along the way. If you choose to still stick her in the whole stay at home mother routine of the Gods, maybe you should realize, that those mothers are usually feared and respected and weren't above ordering, rearranging, using cast iron skillets on dense noggins, and tough love.
Now the one that really gets me. (oh lets be frank all of it gets my goat) She's insulting my Gods.He is family and i love him. And one of the things you don't do to those I love, is speak bad about them. You don't say bad things about my kids, you don't talk bad about my husband, and you certainly don't talk shit about my Dads.
Loki has done many things in my life, and no it wasn't to cure ennui. He took me by the scruff of my neck(with my other Gods help. Cernunnos certainly wasn't quiet) and showed me I was in an abusive relationship. He Socratically made me think and helped me choose better choices. If she had bothered to do more basic research, (ok if she had bothered to look beyond preconceptions, prejudices, and do her duty since she wants to act as a theologian in this article, she might have found things are a lot richer and complex then she puts) she might find that he does that a lot for those that worship him, beyond the Tom Hiddleness.
Loki has more depth to him, then the fact that he is a shape changing, gender bending, God of pranks(if you wish to look at him lightly) or the Norse Satan, if you wish to take the more hard line Asatru stance. For one thing, to many of his worshippers, he's a pretty darn good psychologist who makes you see what you are doing, through stages and changes you for the better. Not many other Gods can do it, because for some of his followers, we were broken, before he took us and duct taped us together. We certainly owe him more than, thanks for all the fish but Star thinks you are scary so we are gonna go play with Thor now.
Then she goes on to say, that she'd rather have Dagda on her side then Morrigan. Really lady? Have you READ any of the Irish myths. Should I remind you of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%BA_Chulainn, Several great grandfathers before him had pissed off the Morrigan by disrespecting her and she cursed that family for 7 generations.
The Morrigan has a temper, there are some Gods it's best to tread lightly with, even if you are going to caution against. You are going to spurn the Goddess of Fate! I mean I like, and more importantly respect the Morrigan. She is a lot more than the bitching badass of war. She has a lot of depth to her. Thanks so much for continuing the prejudice that she's just a Bitch(I asked permission if she was ok with this)
Besides someone who is in the military, Morrigan works well with someone who is going into law(being a lawyer, cop, advocate etc). She does have a temper. She also loves deeply and has passion. She however also does have an iron steel spined and shows the more tough side, then her love side. The best example I would use is an Irish Matriarch.
I think next time lady you go off and pedantically preach about what others need to avoid, you should take some time and try not to insult entire Pantheons, even those you think are "good". Maybe actually read beyond one or two myths that have been sanitized for readers. Actually try to get to know the Gods. Knock on their doors respectfully, offer tea and coffee. Maybe then, once you have done some work on this, I will take your blathering of you are who you worship, with more respect and seriousness.
Thursday, October 24, 2013
Calling Bs on Apuleius Platonicus that ancient Pagans were not as bad as Christians
His comment was, you could not find in all of ancient history, where a conquered people were forced to convert by their Pagan conquerors. Thread to which it came from see the comments(now closed)http://wildhunt.org/2013/10/pagan-voices-vivianne-crowley-peter-dybing-thorn-coyle-and-more.html Mind you TadhgMor made the reply I was thinking of, but he originally started this debate calling out bigotry on Islam, when someone had written convert or die theme, which makes me roll my eyes.
my reply, which I must admit doesn't really show other then Aknaten(and he didn't really conquer Egypt so much as he was the Pharoah, but he did radically change stuff in Egypt, and it was my way or die mentality) The Romans were doing this to an already conquered region, but I think it still applies.
Akhnaten http://www.heptune.com/Akhnaten.html
http://www.roman-empire.net/religion/religion.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diocletianic_Persecution
Yes I am using wiki, gives a decent overview. Mind you during some of the Emperors it wasn't just Christians but also Jews that were persecuted.
http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/history/persecution.htm
http://www.unrv.com/culture/christian-persecution.php
Mind you this whole theme of Pagans aren't as bad as Christians and or Islam is asinine. It's ignoring the ancient atrocities that went on back then. Lets name a few shall we.
Crucifiction, not only the Romans loved this method. (See what they did to Spartacus) http://www.bible.ca/d-history-archeology-crucifixion-cross.htm
The lovely Brazen Bull, where you stuck people you didn't like, into a Bronze bull, lit a fire under it's belly and the screams of the dying, made it sound like an angry bull.
The Norse liked to turn you into an eagle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_eagle This is where you take someone cut their ribs by the spine, pull them out, and pull out the lungs. shudders
Here is a site that shows some of them
http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/news-12-most-exorbitant-and-vicious-execution-methods-worlds-history?image=1
I've heard some Pagans complain about the Burning of the library at Alexandria, completely ignoring that the first burning was done by Julius Caesar. Yes the Christians did burn the library, but by the time they had gotten to it, much of the library was gone.
The Christians and the Muslims are no more aholes, then our ancient fore fathers and mothers were. Before you start poking fingers, make sure your own home is immune from having stones thrown on it. In regards to Christians being worse then Pagans, our own glass windows won't stand the test on that. Hell some of what the Christians did, they learned from Rome. Though we should keep in mind, the Saints and Martyrs persecution, when next we point fingers at how teh Gays are making society fall down, or any other group we don't understand.
my reply, which I must admit doesn't really show other then Aknaten(and he didn't really conquer Egypt so much as he was the Pharoah, but he did radically change stuff in Egypt, and it was my way or die mentality) The Romans were doing this to an already conquered region, but I think it still applies.
Akhnaten http://www.heptune.com/Akhnaten.html
http://www.roman-empire.net/religion/religion.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diocletianic_Persecution
Yes I am using wiki, gives a decent overview. Mind you during some of the Emperors it wasn't just Christians but also Jews that were persecuted.
http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/history/persecution.htm
http://www.unrv.com/culture/christian-persecution.php
Mind you this whole theme of Pagans aren't as bad as Christians and or Islam is asinine. It's ignoring the ancient atrocities that went on back then. Lets name a few shall we.
Crucifiction, not only the Romans loved this method. (See what they did to Spartacus) http://www.bible.ca/d-history-archeology-crucifixion-cross.htm
The lovely Brazen Bull, where you stuck people you didn't like, into a Bronze bull, lit a fire under it's belly and the screams of the dying, made it sound like an angry bull.
The Norse liked to turn you into an eagle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_eagle This is where you take someone cut their ribs by the spine, pull them out, and pull out the lungs. shudders
Here is a site that shows some of them
http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/news-12-most-exorbitant-and-vicious-execution-methods-worlds-history?image=1
I've heard some Pagans complain about the Burning of the library at Alexandria, completely ignoring that the first burning was done by Julius Caesar. Yes the Christians did burn the library, but by the time they had gotten to it, much of the library was gone.
The Christians and the Muslims are no more aholes, then our ancient fore fathers and mothers were. Before you start poking fingers, make sure your own home is immune from having stones thrown on it. In regards to Christians being worse then Pagans, our own glass windows won't stand the test on that. Hell some of what the Christians did, they learned from Rome. Though we should keep in mind, the Saints and Martyrs persecution, when next we point fingers at how teh Gays are making society fall down, or any other group we don't understand.
Sunday, October 20, 2013
Values
So I realized most of what I am writing pertains to values. I value critical thinking, conflict resolution, freedom, transparency and many other things. I value maturity, vs being the cool kid on the block.
I also have other values that I find to be more important. I do look for those values in others, but that is me.
For those who teach, I look to see if they can take being questioned. If they can't, then they are in it for the ego and won't do well for my Sagittarius self. Why, being a Holy word:P
I value adaptability in thought. Life doesn't always throw us the same curve balls. Just because some ancient who ha did something, doesn't mean we need to, or it can't be adapted to more modern means.
I value transparency. It helps in weeding out the predators in Paganism. Issac Bonewits made a scale that I think everyone should take a look at. It helps to see if you are in a cult. http://www.unc.edu/~reddeer/tenets/00_bonewits.scale.html
I value the Greek maxim Know thyself. It helps in figuring out your strengths and weaknesses. I'll try to get the context behind it, for those who are interested.
A value that I have that is not inline with many of the Pagans, is aggression. If someone or something were to come after me or those I love, I take the shot gun method. Many non BTW Wiccans find that abhorrent, as they are more passive, but I'm a pretty aggressive woman. I take the castle doctrine to magic.
I'm also the type of personality that finds you have to earn respect. I grant civility, but anything beyond that has to be earned. That means elders and invisible thingies alike. But once you get my loyalty you get it, unless something big comes along that you do that takes that away.
Forgiveness, I think should be addressed more in the Pagan community. We all screw up. I think we as humans are too quick to judge, and keep that judgement. We only change it, when bad things happen, and we are forced to empathize.
The victim mentality, and referencing bad history, needs to be axed out. There are those of us, who have been victimized that need to be given time, but there are those of us in the Pagan community that like the attention that it gives them.
People like Pam Curtis who have had to hold on by their fingernails, who have gone through several doctors to figure out what is wrong with them. But she's there for others when she can be. I think that we need to get our heads out of our butts and see what our fellow Pagans are really suffering from. Lack of ego stroking, and not enough people paying attn to you is not what I consider a valid disorder, depression yes, but not enough attn, no.
I give Kudos to Krasskova for her monthly oracular work that she does for free. I give Kudos to those who do the monthly oracular work. I think that Pagans in general should look beyond themselves to what they can give to the community at large. We need more Prison Chaplains who care, understand and are forgiving. We need more doers. We as Pagans, no matter what we call ourselves, need to also support the doers and help out. We as Pagans should work with our Christian brethren and help out the existing charities.
This blog post, is what encouraged my deep thoughts on values. http://krasskova.weebly.com/1/post/2013/10/polytheistic-values.html Unlike John Halstead who wants things to be so inclusive, as to render no meaning to labels, she goes the other way. I agree with Veggie wolf(http://fluidmorality.wordpress.com/2013/10/16/polytheistic-values-a-words-mean-things-response/), in the one true way, slut shaming and bigotry toward Monotheists. You can see that latter part in the comment section.
Moreover, I take some amount of annoyance, at the whole concept that Pagan values need to be applied universally. Pagans are like cats, it's really hard to herd them, even if you use tuna. That is one of the Pro's and the Con's. I also take umbrage with Krasskova, coming across as my elder and trying to apply her values universally. My response that I've been keeping under my hat is Bitch Please, back off.
I think we need to respect other religions area of authority and values and ethics falls under that. Making ethics that you want to stick on the Kemetics, the Asatru, the Wiccans, is just really annoying and getting a tad to big for your britches. It's just as annoying as the many Wiccans trying to preach the three fold law and how it applies to EVERYBODY.
While I work with the dead, I don't think that ancestor veneration should be universal. I can't believe I'm referencing Aine, but this post, brings up some very valid points. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/ainellewellyn/2013/10/why-i-dont-worship-my-ancestors/ . If you have bad blood with your current relatives, it isn't going to go away when they die. Bad relationships with parents and relatives, usually goes back many generations, it is a learned trait. We inherit our crazy baggage after all.
Other issues, many of our ancestors are Christian. How are they going to feel being venerated in a more Pagan way? You need to take their feelings into consideration. Nor would I put ancestor worship on the same level as worshiping our Gods.
I have issues with her Universal values. Ok honestly, that's my biggest issue. Nor do I think her claim that taking most of the ancient world and or ancient Polytheists, that these values are universal.
Modesty, is a Christian value. The non sexual one is all about the meek inheriting the earth part. Aka dont' brag about yourself. It has it's place, but I don't see the ancients really being all gung ho about it. Sexual modesty, again is a Christian one and outside Roman matrons, I don't see it being too applicable and frankly, I wouldn't want to encourage it, it is very much a Patriarchal thing(ie, woman don't make other men think hot thoughts about you)
Personally one of the things I like about the Pagan community is our lack of shame on body stuff. Hell one of the warmest memories I have is being in a Pagan shop in Everett Washington, and asking if anyone minded if I breast fed my child without covering. No one cared, and I was able to whip them out, in comfort and feed my child. Later, I got some star trek thing hennaed on my boob by two gay guys. It was star trek innuendo for my husband to enjoy(and no I don't remember what it said, only that it was geeky innuendo)
ok Courage was encouraged, mostly in the war theater
Piety, makes me feel weird, because I really don't want to go the way of the Conservative Christian. I think balance needs to be applied and choices need to be made and respected. It's way to easy to forget yourself and do stuff all for the Gods. It may not be mentally and emotionally healthy and I definitely don't want us giving up objectivity and start voting the way our Gods dictate.
Respecting the Diversity of Gods, I can't see being universal. Plus this is Krasskova being liberal.
Meh, is my thoughts.
I also have other values that I find to be more important. I do look for those values in others, but that is me.
For those who teach, I look to see if they can take being questioned. If they can't, then they are in it for the ego and won't do well for my Sagittarius self. Why, being a Holy word:P
I value adaptability in thought. Life doesn't always throw us the same curve balls. Just because some ancient who ha did something, doesn't mean we need to, or it can't be adapted to more modern means.
I value transparency. It helps in weeding out the predators in Paganism. Issac Bonewits made a scale that I think everyone should take a look at. It helps to see if you are in a cult. http://www.unc.edu/~reddeer/tenets/00_bonewits.scale.html
I value the Greek maxim Know thyself. It helps in figuring out your strengths and weaknesses. I'll try to get the context behind it, for those who are interested.
A value that I have that is not inline with many of the Pagans, is aggression. If someone or something were to come after me or those I love, I take the shot gun method. Many non BTW Wiccans find that abhorrent, as they are more passive, but I'm a pretty aggressive woman. I take the castle doctrine to magic.
I'm also the type of personality that finds you have to earn respect. I grant civility, but anything beyond that has to be earned. That means elders and invisible thingies alike. But once you get my loyalty you get it, unless something big comes along that you do that takes that away.
Forgiveness, I think should be addressed more in the Pagan community. We all screw up. I think we as humans are too quick to judge, and keep that judgement. We only change it, when bad things happen, and we are forced to empathize.
The victim mentality, and referencing bad history, needs to be axed out. There are those of us, who have been victimized that need to be given time, but there are those of us in the Pagan community that like the attention that it gives them.
People like Pam Curtis who have had to hold on by their fingernails, who have gone through several doctors to figure out what is wrong with them. But she's there for others when she can be. I think that we need to get our heads out of our butts and see what our fellow Pagans are really suffering from. Lack of ego stroking, and not enough people paying attn to you is not what I consider a valid disorder, depression yes, but not enough attn, no.
I give Kudos to Krasskova for her monthly oracular work that she does for free. I give Kudos to those who do the monthly oracular work. I think that Pagans in general should look beyond themselves to what they can give to the community at large. We need more Prison Chaplains who care, understand and are forgiving. We need more doers. We as Pagans, no matter what we call ourselves, need to also support the doers and help out. We as Pagans should work with our Christian brethren and help out the existing charities.
This blog post, is what encouraged my deep thoughts on values. http://krasskova.weebly.com/1/post/2013/10/polytheistic-values.html Unlike John Halstead who wants things to be so inclusive, as to render no meaning to labels, she goes the other way. I agree with Veggie wolf(http://fluidmorality.wordpress.com/2013/10/16/polytheistic-values-a-words-mean-things-response/), in the one true way, slut shaming and bigotry toward Monotheists. You can see that latter part in the comment section.
Moreover, I take some amount of annoyance, at the whole concept that Pagan values need to be applied universally. Pagans are like cats, it's really hard to herd them, even if you use tuna. That is one of the Pro's and the Con's. I also take umbrage with Krasskova, coming across as my elder and trying to apply her values universally. My response that I've been keeping under my hat is Bitch Please, back off.
I think we need to respect other religions area of authority and values and ethics falls under that. Making ethics that you want to stick on the Kemetics, the Asatru, the Wiccans, is just really annoying and getting a tad to big for your britches. It's just as annoying as the many Wiccans trying to preach the three fold law and how it applies to EVERYBODY.
While I work with the dead, I don't think that ancestor veneration should be universal. I can't believe I'm referencing Aine, but this post, brings up some very valid points. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/ainellewellyn/2013/10/why-i-dont-worship-my-ancestors/ . If you have bad blood with your current relatives, it isn't going to go away when they die. Bad relationships with parents and relatives, usually goes back many generations, it is a learned trait. We inherit our crazy baggage after all.
Other issues, many of our ancestors are Christian. How are they going to feel being venerated in a more Pagan way? You need to take their feelings into consideration. Nor would I put ancestor worship on the same level as worshiping our Gods.
I have issues with her Universal values. Ok honestly, that's my biggest issue. Nor do I think her claim that taking most of the ancient world and or ancient Polytheists, that these values are universal.
Modesty, is a Christian value. The non sexual one is all about the meek inheriting the earth part. Aka dont' brag about yourself. It has it's place, but I don't see the ancients really being all gung ho about it. Sexual modesty, again is a Christian one and outside Roman matrons, I don't see it being too applicable and frankly, I wouldn't want to encourage it, it is very much a Patriarchal thing(ie, woman don't make other men think hot thoughts about you)
Personally one of the things I like about the Pagan community is our lack of shame on body stuff. Hell one of the warmest memories I have is being in a Pagan shop in Everett Washington, and asking if anyone minded if I breast fed my child without covering. No one cared, and I was able to whip them out, in comfort and feed my child. Later, I got some star trek thing hennaed on my boob by two gay guys. It was star trek innuendo for my husband to enjoy(and no I don't remember what it said, only that it was geeky innuendo)
ok Courage was encouraged, mostly in the war theater
Piety, makes me feel weird, because I really don't want to go the way of the Conservative Christian. I think balance needs to be applied and choices need to be made and respected. It's way to easy to forget yourself and do stuff all for the Gods. It may not be mentally and emotionally healthy and I definitely don't want us giving up objectivity and start voting the way our Gods dictate.
Respecting the Diversity of Gods, I can't see being universal. Plus this is Krasskova being liberal.
Meh, is my thoughts.
Friday, October 18, 2013
Monotheism hate in Pagandom
I want to start this out, by saying I find the first amendment SACRED with all capital letters. From a legal perspective one could say I'm an originalist on this, though I do acknowledge modern innovations. But I pretty much believe that the first amendment needs to be left alone. That means free speech and religion.
But things I've noticed over the years that get to me. The hate from Pagans on Christianity. It disturbs me. It leaves me shaking my head. I get it, many Pagans come from painful back religious experiences, but it's still not healthy to hate an entire religion or religions, and wish for their destruction.
On a more personal level, to hate that religion is to hate the Episcopalian pastors I knew in Mississippi, all three of them. To hate the religion is to hate that Southern Baptist preacher down the road, that I know. To hate that religion is to hate Leslye Haller(https://www.facebook.com/leslye.haller) another Pastor I know that lives down the lane. To hate the religion is to hate my good friend Misty Watson who I LOVE, capital letters being imp to distinguish from small love.
To me, hating the religion is personal. You hate people I know and care about. You insult them, when you rage against monotheists, even the Christian fundamentalist monotheists, because you rage against people I know. Plus, you are chipping away at the 1st amendment, which I believe to be Sacred and Holey.
Disagree with the monotheistic faiths. Hell I admit be being deeply uncomfortable with much if not all of Islam. My feminist beginnings play a major part in that. But I don't hate the faith. I have deep and abiding reservations about it.
It isn't particularly useful either. It isn't going away. You certainly won't shut up, just make stronger their convictions, those of the Christian political arena, that you wish to shut up. Which frankly, if you are entitled to your views, so are they. What's good for the goose is good for the gander type of thought process.
It just leaves me shaking my head. It leaves me disturbed. It leaves me wondering, why hardly anyone else realizes that there is a sickness there. Why is this being continually encouraged in Pagandom?
But things I've noticed over the years that get to me. The hate from Pagans on Christianity. It disturbs me. It leaves me shaking my head. I get it, many Pagans come from painful back religious experiences, but it's still not healthy to hate an entire religion or religions, and wish for their destruction.
On a more personal level, to hate that religion is to hate the Episcopalian pastors I knew in Mississippi, all three of them. To hate the religion is to hate that Southern Baptist preacher down the road, that I know. To hate that religion is to hate Leslye Haller(https://www.facebook.com/leslye.haller) another Pastor I know that lives down the lane. To hate the religion is to hate my good friend Misty Watson who I LOVE, capital letters being imp to distinguish from small love.
To me, hating the religion is personal. You hate people I know and care about. You insult them, when you rage against monotheists, even the Christian fundamentalist monotheists, because you rage against people I know. Plus, you are chipping away at the 1st amendment, which I believe to be Sacred and Holey.
Disagree with the monotheistic faiths. Hell I admit be being deeply uncomfortable with much if not all of Islam. My feminist beginnings play a major part in that. But I don't hate the faith. I have deep and abiding reservations about it.
It isn't particularly useful either. It isn't going away. You certainly won't shut up, just make stronger their convictions, those of the Christian political arena, that you wish to shut up. Which frankly, if you are entitled to your views, so are they. What's good for the goose is good for the gander type of thought process.
It just leaves me shaking my head. It leaves me disturbed. It leaves me wondering, why hardly anyone else realizes that there is a sickness there. Why is this being continually encouraged in Pagandom?
Thursday, October 17, 2013
Hubris in Pagan world
So I saw this post on the Pagan laugh place. https://www.facebook.com/PaganLaughs?hc_location=stream and you will have to scroll to the photo of There are more of us then you think comments. Faceybook does not give me easier ways to link, or else I would.
Anyway, the theme on this was, someone was wearing their pent. Someone came up and went oh you are an Anarchist, how cool. The person was like, no I'm Wiccan. Which no longer show up on that picture and the text has been changed.
That started a round of people going, there have been a number of times, that someone has said to me, oh you are Jewish and I've commented, what you can't count? To a few other comments. Turns out thought the Pentagram is a multi religious symbol. The Christians thought it was the 5 wounds of Christ and effective against demons. To Jews it's truth and other stuff. http://symboldictionary.net/?p=1893
What got me, was the whole snarky, Epic fail comments. Or the hypocritical and ironic comments of, which apparently have since been deleted and the post has been changed, of even the Jewish people don't realize the number of points.
Lets address that Hubris shall we... Know your own religious iconography, and that requires more research then Wicca 101 books on Llewellyn. It doesn't take more then a cursory glance at Ceremonial Magic to realize that the Pent, has a history with Kabbala(or however it is spelled), so that no, Wiccans do not own it exclusively.
Lets also address the whole issue of people not knowing what your religion is. Get over yourself. Wicca and whatever Flavor of Pagan you are, while getting better known, is not that mainstream that everyone will know. Stop being an ass, because someone doesn't recognize your jewelry.
It also irritates me, because it makes the people who practice this religion look like petulant children. Not understanding the history of your religious iconography also makes you look like a fluffy ignorant Pagan.
There being more of you, then people think, is not necessarily something I'd crow about. Especially when those numbers come from immature yahoo's with victim complexes, who are fairly self centered. When the Pagan community matures to something beyond the level of a five year old, then we've gotten somewhere. Sheer numbers of annoying twats, is not a milestone.
Not even going to address the whole changing of the post thing. Thats irritating on a whole nother level.
Anyway, the theme on this was, someone was wearing their pent. Someone came up and went oh you are an Anarchist, how cool. The person was like, no I'm Wiccan. Which no longer show up on that picture and the text has been changed.
That started a round of people going, there have been a number of times, that someone has said to me, oh you are Jewish and I've commented, what you can't count? To a few other comments. Turns out thought the Pentagram is a multi religious symbol. The Christians thought it was the 5 wounds of Christ and effective against demons. To Jews it's truth and other stuff. http://symboldictionary.net/?p=1893
What got me, was the whole snarky, Epic fail comments. Or the hypocritical and ironic comments of, which apparently have since been deleted and the post has been changed, of even the Jewish people don't realize the number of points.
Lets address that Hubris shall we... Know your own religious iconography, and that requires more research then Wicca 101 books on Llewellyn. It doesn't take more then a cursory glance at Ceremonial Magic to realize that the Pent, has a history with Kabbala(or however it is spelled), so that no, Wiccans do not own it exclusively.
Lets also address the whole issue of people not knowing what your religion is. Get over yourself. Wicca and whatever Flavor of Pagan you are, while getting better known, is not that mainstream that everyone will know. Stop being an ass, because someone doesn't recognize your jewelry.
It also irritates me, because it makes the people who practice this religion look like petulant children. Not understanding the history of your religious iconography also makes you look like a fluffy ignorant Pagan.
There being more of you, then people think, is not necessarily something I'd crow about. Especially when those numbers come from immature yahoo's with victim complexes, who are fairly self centered. When the Pagan community matures to something beyond the level of a five year old, then we've gotten somewhere. Sheer numbers of annoying twats, is not a milestone.
Not even going to address the whole changing of the post thing. Thats irritating on a whole nother level.
Sunday, October 13, 2013
Jungian spirituality and Pantheism.
There are valid ways to be Pantheist. There are valid ways to use Jungian thought forms. I personally find it bland and uninspiring but that's me. Hell there are even valid ways to do Pop Culture spirituality, see many of the people who are doing Jedi. Taylor Ellwood manages to do it.
I also find it a safe way to practice religion. With a Jungian thought form, or pop culture icon, or even all Gods are One God and all Goddess are one Goddess, you aren't risking a Deity being mad at you, for not managing your relationship right. Which is what us Polytheists have with our Deities, a relationship.
When all Gods are one God and all Goddesses are one Goddess(and why don't we just merge the two into some sort of Monotheism, I dunno) it leaves the door open for permission to culturally appropriate. Why it's then perfectly ok to insert Kwan Yin(http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/deities/kuan_yin.htm) into the role of Goddess in a Wiccanesque ritual. It is also then perfectly ok to insert Osiris into the role of God in that ritual. (http://www.religionfacts.com/neopaganism/paths/kemetic.htm). Likewise it is also ok to use Santa Muerte(http://witchrants.wordpress.com/tag/santa-muerte/) and Coyote.
These Deities, all have their own cultures that they are part of. It is insulting to insert them into a Wiccanesque ritual, because you are too lazy to learn how they are worshiped where they are at. It is insulting to pick them out of a Gods list and stick them in a ritual, because you like some of their shallow personality traits, or whatever power you think they hold over the universe. It is also lazy. The Gods, even thought forms aren't some plug and play device.
If you aren't sure about the Gods, then use neutral terms. Use Lady or Lord or whatever Title seems appropriate. Unknown God or Goddess, or sacred whosywhatsit, or Queen or what the role is, you think they should be. But don't grab a God and stick them into that role, without doing some research, or even asking and really listening. Would you want to be grabbed and instructed to give blessings on asphalt pot holes, when you are a doctor?
The roots of this are http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Goddess and http://www.nostrajewellery.org/files/M-A-Murray-The-God-of-the-Witches.pdf. The first is written by a poet, in the early 1900's. The second by an anthropologist, also early in the 1900's. Both were found out to be wrong.
Yeah it's beautiful writing. It evokes beautiful metaphors. It is also too clean and puts the poetic thing on a pedestal. It is a painting of an idea, not a picture of the Deity. It is the writing of a troubadour, someone who reveres a lady, but from afar. Sounds romantic, but the troubadour doesn't have to deal with the pms or the morning sickness either.
There are richer tales from where the White Goddess came from. Look to the http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/cft/, or the Eddas(granted colored in Christian theology). Look to the tales of that land, not the prettied up stories told by later poets. It's akin to reading and worshiping Mother Goose vs the real Grimms fairy tales.
I'll come back to this later tonight. I'm starting to type in circles.
I also find it a safe way to practice religion. With a Jungian thought form, or pop culture icon, or even all Gods are One God and all Goddess are one Goddess, you aren't risking a Deity being mad at you, for not managing your relationship right. Which is what us Polytheists have with our Deities, a relationship.
When all Gods are one God and all Goddesses are one Goddess(and why don't we just merge the two into some sort of Monotheism, I dunno) it leaves the door open for permission to culturally appropriate. Why it's then perfectly ok to insert Kwan Yin(http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/deities/kuan_yin.htm) into the role of Goddess in a Wiccanesque ritual. It is also then perfectly ok to insert Osiris into the role of God in that ritual. (http://www.religionfacts.com/neopaganism/paths/kemetic.htm). Likewise it is also ok to use Santa Muerte(http://witchrants.wordpress.com/tag/santa-muerte/) and Coyote.
These Deities, all have their own cultures that they are part of. It is insulting to insert them into a Wiccanesque ritual, because you are too lazy to learn how they are worshiped where they are at. It is insulting to pick them out of a Gods list and stick them in a ritual, because you like some of their shallow personality traits, or whatever power you think they hold over the universe. It is also lazy. The Gods, even thought forms aren't some plug and play device.
If you aren't sure about the Gods, then use neutral terms. Use Lady or Lord or whatever Title seems appropriate. Unknown God or Goddess, or sacred whosywhatsit, or Queen or what the role is, you think they should be. But don't grab a God and stick them into that role, without doing some research, or even asking and really listening. Would you want to be grabbed and instructed to give blessings on asphalt pot holes, when you are a doctor?
The roots of this are http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Goddess and http://www.nostrajewellery.org/files/M-A-Murray-The-God-of-the-Witches.pdf. The first is written by a poet, in the early 1900's. The second by an anthropologist, also early in the 1900's. Both were found out to be wrong.
Yeah it's beautiful writing. It evokes beautiful metaphors. It is also too clean and puts the poetic thing on a pedestal. It is a painting of an idea, not a picture of the Deity. It is the writing of a troubadour, someone who reveres a lady, but from afar. Sounds romantic, but the troubadour doesn't have to deal with the pms or the morning sickness either.
There are richer tales from where the White Goddess came from. Look to the http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/cft/, or the Eddas(granted colored in Christian theology). Look to the tales of that land, not the prettied up stories told by later poets. It's akin to reading and worshiping Mother Goose vs the real Grimms fairy tales.
I'll come back to this later tonight. I'm starting to type in circles.
Friday, October 11, 2013
Fired up rant
Do not get on me, for being mean. Look up the definition of a rant. This is the only caveat you will get.
So the past week or so, I had commented here. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/allergicpagan/2013/09/28/what-a-pagan-can-tell-you-about-whether-mormons-are-christian/ I had ignored it after a few days until cough "Quentin" had replied to me. Quentin knows who he is, shakes my head.
It is this type of Pagan that many of the Pagans listen to. There are many things wrong, in my opinion, with what he says. And he is an example of what I find wrong with the Pagan sphere.
1. His research sucks a lot. He put Galina Krasskova(in an earlier blog) in with Heathens and authority, when any small modicum of research would show that no, she is most assuredly not. Galina and Asatru equals shit storm.( I don't agree with the Heathens on this, but whatev, point is, he didn't look past his darn nose and opinion)
2.I despise this word, I despise the politics behind it, but I'm going to use it. It is awfully privileged to tell Quentin, who is gay, whether he can use the word Fag. Screw privileged it is HUBRIS. John you are straight and granted you may be a supporter of LGBT, and it may be your blog(A blog that is on Patheos and ergo kinda a semi professional zine type thing, but I"ll get to that later), but to say you can't say that on my blog without more of a reason is Hubris pure and simple. You don't get to dictate, ignore and sweep under the rug the reclaimed term Fag that a Gay guy is using. There are very good and essential reasons he was using it. Quit beigeing the world, cause someone might be offended.
3. He demands acceptance of his stance. He is a Jungian Pagan, who wants to claim he is Polytheistic. No, you aren't. You don't follow Gods, you follow psychological thought forms(Jung is a Psychiatrist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung Jung is a school in psychology, so is Freud(the father of psychoanalysis, not the father of psychology). While some of his stuff is interesting, I can not support him defining himself as a Polytheist, when some research points him more as a Pantheist. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/polytheism Pantheist definition. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pantheist Definition of Deity. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deity Definition of God http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/god
A Jungian thought form is not a God. I wouldn't even put it as a god. I will support you, if you want to worship that way, cause frankly it aint no skin off my nose if you choose to do so. I will open the Pagan tent to you, but for the Love of the GODS quit trying to define yourself as something you aint.
4. Quit making people into meany fundy pooh pooh heads if they have the temerity to say you are wrong. See his article and his link to Galina Krasskova. It isn't mean, unethical to say someone is wrong. I realize this is a great sin in today's Pagan land, of special snowflakes and their fragile hypersensitive ego's, but dayum.
He also has a huge problem with Scalia and labels him the huge sinful name of Fundamentalist and demagogue there too. Scalia isn't, he's a bloody Strict Constitutionalist. He took after William H Rehnquist, one of the chief Justices of the Supreme court. Halstead is a Lawyer and should know better btw. You are taught how to argue, you are taught how to source and research for fraks sake.
5.How the hell can I argue the seriousness of Pagandom, with people like this as Big name Pagans, to my local Methodist minister,or the Southern Baptist preacher. How, when frankly my 14 year old and my 9 year old act with more maturity on being told they are wrong. Hell my 14 year old can debate better and source herself better.
What bugs me the most is, while he writes mature, the emotion behind it is basically all the teenage angst of someone rebelling against their parents. That isn't mature theology. I can't argue that my local ministers should respect it, when I have a hard time.
I'll edit in more later
grumbly moonie
So the past week or so, I had commented here. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/allergicpagan/2013/09/28/what-a-pagan-can-tell-you-about-whether-mormons-are-christian/ I had ignored it after a few days until cough "Quentin" had replied to me. Quentin knows who he is, shakes my head.
It is this type of Pagan that many of the Pagans listen to. There are many things wrong, in my opinion, with what he says. And he is an example of what I find wrong with the Pagan sphere.
1. His research sucks a lot. He put Galina Krasskova(in an earlier blog) in with Heathens and authority, when any small modicum of research would show that no, she is most assuredly not. Galina and Asatru equals shit storm.( I don't agree with the Heathens on this, but whatev, point is, he didn't look past his darn nose and opinion)
2.I despise this word, I despise the politics behind it, but I'm going to use it. It is awfully privileged to tell Quentin, who is gay, whether he can use the word Fag. Screw privileged it is HUBRIS. John you are straight and granted you may be a supporter of LGBT, and it may be your blog(A blog that is on Patheos and ergo kinda a semi professional zine type thing, but I"ll get to that later), but to say you can't say that on my blog without more of a reason is Hubris pure and simple. You don't get to dictate, ignore and sweep under the rug the reclaimed term Fag that a Gay guy is using. There are very good and essential reasons he was using it. Quit beigeing the world, cause someone might be offended.
3. He demands acceptance of his stance. He is a Jungian Pagan, who wants to claim he is Polytheistic. No, you aren't. You don't follow Gods, you follow psychological thought forms(Jung is a Psychiatrist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung Jung is a school in psychology, so is Freud(the father of psychoanalysis, not the father of psychology). While some of his stuff is interesting, I can not support him defining himself as a Polytheist, when some research points him more as a Pantheist. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/polytheism Pantheist definition. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pantheist Definition of Deity. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deity Definition of God http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/god
A Jungian thought form is not a God. I wouldn't even put it as a god. I will support you, if you want to worship that way, cause frankly it aint no skin off my nose if you choose to do so. I will open the Pagan tent to you, but for the Love of the GODS quit trying to define yourself as something you aint.
4. Quit making people into meany fundy pooh pooh heads if they have the temerity to say you are wrong. See his article and his link to Galina Krasskova. It isn't mean, unethical to say someone is wrong. I realize this is a great sin in today's Pagan land, of special snowflakes and their fragile hypersensitive ego's, but dayum.
He also has a huge problem with Scalia and labels him the huge sinful name of Fundamentalist and demagogue there too. Scalia isn't, he's a bloody Strict Constitutionalist. He took after William H Rehnquist, one of the chief Justices of the Supreme court. Halstead is a Lawyer and should know better btw. You are taught how to argue, you are taught how to source and research for fraks sake.
5.How the hell can I argue the seriousness of Pagandom, with people like this as Big name Pagans, to my local Methodist minister,or the Southern Baptist preacher. How, when frankly my 14 year old and my 9 year old act with more maturity on being told they are wrong. Hell my 14 year old can debate better and source herself better.
What bugs me the most is, while he writes mature, the emotion behind it is basically all the teenage angst of someone rebelling against their parents. That isn't mature theology. I can't argue that my local ministers should respect it, when I have a hard time.
I'll edit in more later
grumbly moonie
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)