Lets talk about Devotion

I think it important that before we talk about who is doing something wrong, that we first establish whether or not someone is following the same paradigmn.  This is inspirted by KrasskovasI Screeches, and other Recons, who want us to do it more the way of the ancients.  So lets talk about this shall we?

I don't know about anyone elses paradigm but to me my Gods are family and close friends.  This has been forged in the fires of my life.  It has organically worked out to be that way.  Others may have different ways of relating.

What does that mean to me.  It means they are honest with me.  It means we have ups and downs.  It means I am not subservient nor do I abase myself.  It means I do, what I can do, of what I am asked. For many years, and I've written this before, I wasn't asked for devotions, but to learn butterfuly gardening, or do other tasks, the most imp is to be the Holy sticky note and pass on messages, that I can here, and to be a shoulder for others to lean on and cry on.  I still have a strong indication that duty is more imp, then how many candles I light and how much food I put on the altar.

I am not my ancestors.  I am not going to sacrifice a virgin, to stop the volcano from blowing up.  Our ancestors put a lot of devotion because they felt they had to APPEASE the Gods or else bad things would happen.  We aren't them.  So relationships and devotoins have changed and that is a good thing.

Our Gods don't have the temples that they once used to.  They definately dont' have the same priests. THis isn't Alexandria, where you hire engineers to concock wonders to lure more worshippers to the temple.

No our relationships and our blogging are more personal.  Our relationship are more intimate.  They aren't subject to what the High Priest or Priestess believe(despite what some self appointed would like to think) they are subject to what The Gods we worship and us believe and how we work it out.

If others are different, please lets talk, so that others can see the different paradigmns.  Lets discuss how it is with you, and what works.

Krasskova is sticking her foot in her mouth yet again.

Krasskova is sticking her foot in her mouth and talking out of her ass again.  https://krasskova.wordpress.com/2015/01/29/impossible-standards-of-devotion/  Oh noes we are doing it wrong again.  Rolls eyes.

Hey Galina, way to make yourself sound more pretentious and elitist then some of the Asatruar on Asatru Lore.  Do you think writing a few books makes you some sort of qualified expert? You were a decent person to look at when you were talking from your own perspective, now you have turned into a cultish quack twitching whenever someone takes away some "power" you think you have.

Now here are some real life reasons people don't do it the way you do.

1. They haven't been asked to yet.

2. They(gasp I know this might come as a surprise) don't have the time, energy, or mental spoons yet.  Real life may be pooping all over them.  Not everyone goes the Catholic route of lighting a zillion candles when life hands them lemons.

3. They may not have that type of devotional paradigmn.  What someone has a personal relationship with the Gods that differes from you, say it aint so.  The Gods may be asking them for different things, oh noes.

IN other words, stick your nose back in your own business,(You can start by getting rid of the idea of tradition and mystery for reconstruction, this isn't BTW wicca, and you aint Gardner) clean your own house and stay the hell out of others.  We aren't jealous of you, you cultic power hungry quack, we choose our own way of dealing with our Gods.

Elders and devotional paradigms

http://saltyourbones.wordpress.com/2013/12/25/what-to-offer-deities-and-how-to-figure-it-out/  This is a very good post, check it out.  She writes about how I feel how the Gods came to be.  Shakes fist at her, and grins.  Goes grrr grrr grr at ya.

My baseline for Pagans I encounter is peers.  I have no issue arguing and debating shiny mental mastubatory concepts.  Whether Morrigan is a peace entity or a bad ass bitch on the battlefield, based on the stories. That's fine. What isn't fine is telling someone, that the way they worship their personal Gods is wrong.  I don't think I've ever done that.

I also have a huge issue with, well I was and I am poor and I manage to do this. How you managed to do something will be different from others.  Your challenges are not theirs.  Some sacrifices may be too much, and no one has the right to shame others in regards to that.  While I did sigh in regards to the charity post, about money and how others choose to spend it, shaming is quite different.  I don't pay their bills, I really don't have a right nor does anyone else, to get uppity about it.

My UPG is more imp to me, then whether or not it matches up with what the ancients did. I have a personal relationship with my Gods.  They are not my Kings.  I don't operate out of a fear paradigm.  It is about love.

I have also run into a big lesson in this life.  QUESTION everything.  Gut check, is important.  It is one of the reasons I respect Scott Cunningham(Yeah that's what the whole do what feels right to you is about guys. He's saying listen to your intuition), because he does stress he doesn't know it all and your intuition is one of the best guides to listen to.  Also, I am told by my Gods to do this.  My gut check isn't just with humans.

Just because someone has been doing something for a while, doesn't make what they are doing, the right fit for you.  Your intuition will tell you. Consider our history(the larger occult community) of dishing out a lot of bullshit, doesn't necessarily mean, that they are knowledgable.  Harry Houdini debunked quite a lot of mediums in his day(many of which came from spiritualism, which does play into our Paganism) for being frauds.  Aleister Crowley, while gifted, was also a heroin addict among many other issues.  Gardner, liked to spank nubile young thangs(50 years of Wicca), does that really mean we need to continue scourging to raise energy, because Gardner really liked to do it?

Our modern Pagan practitioners aren't much different.  We all have issues, of one sort or another.  While that doesn't make them a bad teacher, it should be taken into consideration.  Your intuition is wiser than your cognitive functions, I have found, it is not shameful, if you have asked for advice and your gut says No, to not do that advise.

We have the opportunity to bring back to life stuff that has lain dormant.  Not only can we bring it back but we can do it better.  We can understand the lessons of the past and take the compassion and empathy of what we have fought for in the modern age and apply it.  We can find better ways of doing things, that other cultures have done, instead of doing only what the ancients did.  That doesn't make it wrong, that makes it using your head.

Devotion and respect to the Gods

Ahhh joy another drama storm is brewing about the interwebs.  You can read the origins here:http://saltyourbones.wordpress.com/2013/12/21/on-classism-paganism-and-the-piety-posse/#comments and here http://satsekhem.wordpress.com/2013/12/23/poor-as-fuck-polytheism/
and here http://nornoriel.dreamwidth.org/293877.html?mode=reply and here(this one defends it)http://forestdoor.wordpress.com/2013/12/19/for-polytheists/#comment-4056 and here http://roguesareth.wordpress.com/2013/12/23/poverty-piety-and-paganism/

I'm sure there are other places I have missed.  I've already vented my spleen and had my say, so I won't say it redundantly here.  You can read my posts there if you are so inclined.

Ok that being said, it bring to mind an interesting questions.  How do we show devotion to the Gods.  Do we do it as others do, and do so religiously(pun not intended) or do we do it out of love?  If we owe the Gods piety and offerings, do they owe us as well?  Is there give and take?

My opinion.  I offer out of love.  For me it isn't about being a good Pagan and getting some sort of reward, it is about doing something that brings me closer.  I offer them what I make for food(or teach my daughter to make).  I offer what I have on hand.  If I have extra money and I am in the grocery store and they ask for something I try to provide it, because I like doing that.  I do that also for friends and family. It pleases me to please those that I love.

However, there is a balance.  If the Gods want offerings to show them respect, then respect needs to be shown to you as well.  Also you should first respect yourself.

 I can here the gasps now.

We are not our ancestors.  We do not need to toss the virgin in the volcano to placate the angry God to stop ourselves from dying.  The relationship has changed, or has it?

In the feudal system, you gave to the Lords, who gave to the ones in power, who gave to the King.  In turn the those in power were supposed to look out for you and protect you from dangers.  (History has shown what a poor system that was).  In what I have read(and I forget the sources or I'd link them) you gave to the spirits because they looked out for you.  The Gods grew from that.

Ie, There was a give and take.

Ok lets get out of the academic and mental world.

The Gods and their devotees have their own relationships.  It is not one size fit all.  Though some bnp's seem to think we should take what they say from on high, and the rest be laity giving to the Gods.  I think they forget we don't necessarily need them to talk to the Gods for us, many of us can do it ourselves.  I think they forget we have our own relationships with the Gods and the Gods don't always ask the same from everyone.

Also I am highly uncomfortable with the idea, that if you do not do x devotions or giving to the Gods, you are a bad Pagan.   It is the same mentality that I ran into in some of the Christian Churches.  I found it problematic.  It puts God/Yahweh first and you should obey, and not question.  You should live your life to please him.

I don't think that attitude is a healthy one.  Now some Pagans may do that, but they choose to do so.  For every Pagan or Polytheist to do so, feels unhealthy to me.  Also my Gods want me to question.  I was also kicking myself for participating in the drama, before I realized standing up and calling out bullshit is a holy devotion for me.

Smurfette has a different obligation to Bridgette then I do to Loki and my other Gods.  She needs to make quilts.  I help put broken people together, speak for the Gods, do devotions if they wish, and study and learn  and probably have a career arguing.  (if I get my college shit done).  The Gods have asked or told us to do stuff, and we have accepted.  She is not me and I am not her.  We definitely are not Dver, and Sannion, or Tess.

Lets also talk about people have different responsibilities.  Who should come first, Gods or the Kids?  Is it devotion to give food to the Gods that could go to your hungry kids?  Would the Gods approve?  Do you not have the right to balance and make sure your life is as stable as it can be, before giving to the Gods? Seems like those arguing, do not think you do.  I disagree.

I believe you need to assess and take care of your needs.  If you do not, you risk falling apart and then you can't give the Gods or do what they ask.  I think I would have a huge issue if my Gods demanded me to give offerings I can't afford at the expense of my children.  For Gods that pushed me to argue, to thrown down the B.S flag, I'd probably have a go at it with them. (uh oh I see smiling).  Nor do I think it would be impious to do so.  See my conflict resolution post.  It's addressing at that point, an issue.

We Polytheists have a relationship with the Gods.  The rules are not in the books nor are written by the BNP's.  It is written by what we agree to and the boundaries we set and the stuff we negotiate(those of us that can hear them).

Issues in the greater Pagan religion

I see a lot of hue and furious cry of typing fingers, when Teo Bishop left.  I see a lot of whinging about Pentacles and horror films and think of the Neo Pagan witches.  I don't see a lot of Pagan press about many of the Prison Chaplains that work with Pagans in Prison.  I don't see a lot of news about people who actually do stuff to make the world a better place.  Though there is plenty of halp halp the Christians are persecuting me.

Why?

Oh and Lords and Ladies above.  If someone asks for help in the Pagan community for financial issues, or for charity don't expect them to get much help.  But the self same Pagans that can't be arsed to give 5 bucks, sure as hell can spend money for made in china crap, that comes from Azure Green.

That bugs me.  It doesn't say much for our ethics or our priorities.

Why is being a victim a higher priority in the larger Pagan community then giving back to the world?  Why don't we have it in our theology and talk about it more?  Why do we let those who help, do so out of their own pocket?  If you can't afford any to help, you can make a craft and do a raffle to generate the funds. Why aren't we seeing this?

And yes I do help.

I'd list what I do(and I feel I should do more, but balance right now) but this isn't my ego boost, this is the start of the why.

WHY general Pagans, WHY?

Critical thinking how to, take 1?

It begins with the questions.  It is an important and holy question.  The sacred question of why.

My husband told me once, one of the good hallmarks of a good game master, is to ask why three times. The answer to those questions leads you to help in making the game more enjoyable for the players.  You can also use that method, in critical thinking.

Another name for this, would be the socratic method.  See linky to law school explanation.  http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospectives/lifeofthemind/socraticmethod  It has embedded hyperlinks you can also read to gain more of an idea.  This one is a wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method  It has more then a law school rapid fire version of the method.

Other tools in your box, that I think are important, is a basic understanding of psychology.  You don't have to go to class, go to amazon and get some used textbooks, and read.  Understanding the basics of how people communicate would be helpful.

Despite the mantra in Pagandom of do not judge others, that is more harmful then hurtful.  It neglects the fact that we are human and it is in our nature to judge.  If we didn't, we often would run head first into bad situations.  Judging is not bad.

It is shallow to base what someone is like based on their looks.  However their speech, body language and how they treat others, shows what they will be like as a person.  It is vital then that you use that knowledge gained from getting to know them to make judgement.  Also ALWAYS listen to your intuition.  It knows things that you do not.

Critical thinking

Most of the beginning teachings in Paganism revolve around, shielding, centering, grounding and reading information about the Gods.  Conflict resolution techniques are not discussed, which I find to be a shame.  A skill that is also in short supply, in being taught is critical thinking.

I believe this is due in large part, because many don't know it.  If you don't develop the skills, you are in a religion that it is very easy to delude yourself or be deluded by others.  You also run the risk of being deluded by spirits.

Now you may be wondering, why this is imp.  It helps in presenting a more serious, less juvenile view of Pagandom to other religions.  This helps in interfaith work.  Also, if Pagans are seen in a more serious light, or less of a dangerous light, lawmakers are more likely to think about laws that may impact us.  Government bureaucrats whose job it is, to make sure you are a decent parent, will be less likely to harass you.

The founders of the movement leave something to be desired ethically.  Gerald Gardner, if you read 50 years of Wicca, you will find is a dirty old man.  I would even suggest that there are things in Wicca that if you look hard you will see he had pulled out of Buddhism or Hinduism along with his time in the Golden Dawn.

Alex Sanders, when he was told no, about joining Gardner, stole the books of shadows and did his own coven.  Aleister Crowley, crazy heroin addict.  Our Neo Pagan founders left some things to be desired.

Israel Regardie though, pretty darn ethical.  I have yet to hear a bad thing about Cunninghan, except that some of the more serious Pagans think he is fluffy.  Deborah Lipp, another person that I wouldn't hesitate to send people to.  I haven't heard much negative about Kveldulf Gundarrsson.

Anyway...  My point before I wandered into the land, of wtf were we doing learning from our founders.  My point was critical thinking.  We have Issac Bonewits to introduce us to the cult form.  http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html

We have Ronald Hutton, that started talking in laymans terms about how many of our histories are just horribly inaccurate.  Though, it is still getting to many people.  Many still believe in the 9 million died of the inquisition aka burning times.  Many still believe in what is now debunked Margaret Murray's anthropological thesis of a witches going back several thousand years and a secret witch cult.  See Triumph of the Moon.

Reading outside of Llewellyn and Pagan authors will help in establishing, a more objective mindset. Understanding socratic thought, will help in keeping a skeptical mind.  There is nothing wrong, to question Pagan authors and their concepts or your own UPG as stringently as you questioned Christianity. Talking around, and taking more than just big name Pagans view, will help in developing more critical thought patterns.  

I do not think that learning how to be an academic like Axe and Plough has stipulated, is necessarily the way to stop bad Canonical thought from staying in Paganism. http://thelettuceman.wordpress.com/2013/10/24/paganism-and-psuedoscholarship/ 

Despite my experiences, it is not bad ethics, or being a bad person to question people either.  I know it goes against the newagey mantra of be nice and keep annoying negative people away, so your aura doesn't get muddied, but it isn't bad.

Paganbookreviews.net is a site that would be helpful to have.  She's gives pretty objective reviews.  It helps in deciding which books to spend your hard earned money on.

Going and reading communication textbooks, will help in understanding public relations, advertising, and how people communicate.  This helps in talking with spirits, with understanding the business world of Pagan publishing, and helps with not being taken in by commercials.

I will try in my blog to dissect how I do things in this regard and put it in more bite sized pieces.  This is hard for me, so bear with me.

Lunas