Sunday, November 3, 2013

Subjective vs Objective.

This post is the catalyst for this post.  http://blacklightmetaphysics.com/2013/11/03/days-of-the-dead/#comment-2366  Interesting take on past life, and the lessons we need to learn to heal old wounds.  I may very well have to consider doing so as well.

Though there are some things in his post that I want to address.  When we receive stuff via past life regression, we should look at the filter from whence it comes.  Objectivity is hard to maintain, and our own personal crap will influence stuff.  Whoever is providing the info, yeah spiritual who ha's have biases too, also have a stake in how it is presented.  So, write it down, but look at who is giving it to you, to see how much salt needs to be applied.

How was the regression done?  Does it resonate with you, why or why not?  What resonates with you? Why?(Socratic questioning helps here)  I personally would give more salt to guided meditation in past life regression then other ways.

Ok, now that you got through all that, deal with the emotions.  We are human, not Data a sentient Android. Shit is gonna make us feel stuff.  Process. Try not to yell or blame or make rushed judgements until you have processed the emotions.

Ok lets take his post and go with lesson time.

1. Guided meditation, so while the person who guided it was being ridden, you HAVE to take biases and the human filter into account.  What is their political bent?  How do they feel about war and politics and other stuff.?  How has that influenced your regression?

2. He feels betrayed and is pissed and is now in a crisis of faith.  But he isn't letting himself grieve.  He is making decisions a little too rashly, mind you they are mature, but still he needs time to ponder and sort and grieve and see how much truth is really there.  He's also not taking into account the emotions of this life and how it may be bleeding over into the vision. (See the emotions of the Grandmother) Greek  Maxim Know thyself helps.  Use it and grieve.  Logic helps in the grieving too.  Use it.  Ask yourself questions and go with it, write it down, blog, do art, it helps in figuring out why you feel this way, and helps in dealing.

3.He is blaming the Gods.  He's studies the history of this time period.  So, it shouldn't be that hard to figure out which General he was and figure out how true this is.  If it's just a lesson story, learn the lesson, but why get bent out of shape over something that didn't occur, why internalize the emotional baggage?  An analogy, if this is the guided meditation version of Eat, Pray, Love, ok get sad, but don't get so emotionally vested in the movie that you decide to abandon all trappings of a "square life"(to be snarky about a previous post) that you decide to become a world wide Hippy.  Yes if it calls to you and you can do it.  But let a little pragmatism in your life flourish too.

4. Ok he is blaming the Gods and not those, that did the deeds, in the past life(we haven't established how true it is). Why is this shit Jupiter and Mars fault and not the Senators?  Dude was a General, dude played politics, dude should know how the damn game is played, dude needs to also take responsibility for not thinking about shit ahead of time.

If you wanted to retire away from politics, Britannia would have been a better location and less likely to be bugged by senators. Because who the hell wants to travel that far into the outer reaches of the Roman Empire? Saying it aint fair, is bullshit, especially when if you were a General, you know good damn well, how hard these guys play for power.  If you don't want to play, then take care to get yourself out of the line of fire.  It aint Jupiters fault you didn't think this through and thought people were gonna be honorable with you and leave you alone?  It is being naive.  (Again who's cultural bias is showing, that is having him have these emotions?  Americans? In fact I'd even say it is a very modern American cultural bias and not the Generals of Rome)

5.Now lets look at the bigger tapestry.  Ok so you wanted to be let alone but Mars and Jupiter were poking you.  You don't know if you can trust them to keep to their promise of happiness.  They gave you opportunities at happiness. Expecting them to protect you from the harsh realities of life is a bit much.(Mind you we all do that. I've had times of I've worked for you why the hell is this shit happening to me too)  What did you honestly expect them to do?

If you had listened to them and gotten into politics, would you still have had your wife, or more time?  This is the lesson of looking at the tapestry of possibilities and looking at chess and the various outcomes.  Maybe they were poking you for a reason other then, you make a good general.  Maybe they saw shit and you were the best candidate and that yes you could be happyish.  Have you explored the realm of which door did you pick and what would have happened had you went that route?

6. Ok you wanted peace, quiet and a contented life.  Well, the Gods have a responsibility to more than just you.  Do they have the right to nag the shit out of you, if the choice is you, vs say the asshat Nero?  Where does their responsibility lie?  Have you looked at the larger picture here and tried to work out why the hell they were poking you?  Why?

By the by.  I am no means advocating blindly do whatever it is the Gods are poking you to do.  Ask questions.  Realize you have choices.  Also realize it is hard and almost impossible to see the hard picture. Something I'd also like to throw out, if we aren't the same people we were 20 years ago, why are the Gods always unchanging?

8 comments:

  1. I'm trying really hard not to be bothered by the fact that you took an intensely personal experience that I had and used it to question the motive and choices of a past life. I'm trying hard not to be bothered by the fact that you are making huge assumptions about my emotional and internal state, and what I have and have not processed through. I'm trying hard to not be bothered by the fact that you seem to have missed the primary thrust of my story in the larger narrative of the post, in favor of speculating on what the gods want from me and what a past life should have done.

    I'm not having much success.

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    Replies
    1. to Chirotus
      I warned you it was blunt.

      It isn't for you, it is for others. It's a lesson in critical thinking. There are dangers in believing wholeheartedly in this stuff without a lot of questioning. SRA and recovered memories is an example. One kid thought he had seen someone disemboweled, and got taken away from his parents. Turns out years later, what he thought he saw and felt from a recovered memory was from star wars. You think Past life memories don't require the same level of critical thinking as recovered memories(both of which are prone to people leaving their stuff in you, so that you think it happens. It's a form of hypnosis)


      I wasn't questioning the motives of your past life, I was questioning whether it happened, because I can't see Patton, Eisenhower, Robert E. Lee, Germanicus,Caesar, or any number of General reacting that way. It was stoic but very passive stoic. Where is the ego, where is the revenge? Where is the Romaness in this?

      It was also a point, that you are taking something personal, and I was showing that we are humans and we have choices and showing the different tapestry of choices we can make. There is a lot of woe is me in what you wrote(see Christian chip on your shoulder of your own article).

      You clearly stated that you are having a crisis of faith. I am not making assumptions. I was applying the theoretical of what I had typed to what you had written. You clearly stated your emotions and how and why you felt them.

      I see you questioning the Gods, I don't see you questioning the process, whether it happened, or anything else. Did it really happen? Or was this a personal Aesops Fable for you to learn through personal emotions to not be a dork? Where is the socratic questioning? I see you pulling away from your Gods in this story because you believe. WHy do you believe?

      Are you talking this out with the Gods? If not Why? Don't they deserve some conflict resolution?

      So yes, I took this and turned it into a larger lesson, because I'VE BEEN THERE and I'm showing through my experience how to deal with gullibility that can hurt you. I'm showing how to deal with in one way, dark time of the soul, so that someone else if they come onto this can use it to help themselves. I respected you enough to give you FAIR WARNING.


      And why didn't this show up when I replied via email????

      Delete
    2. From my original post:

      "I will always equivocate over what “past life memories” are. Did I really live back then? Is the story I tell here historically accurate? Who knows? I don’t think it matters. What matters are the themes in the story resonate with my life now. And I need to address them."

      Yes, you were questioning the motives of the past life character. You were telling him what he should have done from your perspective. The story wasn't from your perspective, and you have demonstrated an ignorance of his.

      You made a slew of assumptions, all of them wrong, and many of them contradicted by my actual post. You assumed this was a regression. You assumed my emotional state. You assumed details I didn't provide and ignored some I did. You assumed historical and cultural facts that are incorrect. You assumed I did not question or evaluate the experience.

      And to claim that this was a lesson in critical thinking is disingenuous. You spent half the post questioning the nature of my experience and my reaction to it, ignoring what I had to say about it. You spent the rest of it questioning why a person who lived over 2000 years ago didn't act the way you expected them to. And i doing so you passed over the fact that I addressed my own skepticism on the entire phenomenon of past life memories (and have done so repeatedly on my blog, although I'm not expecting you to have read that far back, even though I suspect you have.)

      This isn't blunt. It is a gross mischaracterization of what I wrote, of how I presented it, of my experience, and what I was processing from it. It was condescending and insulting and flew so far over the point that it would have needed its own air supply to survive the trip.

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    3. Actually no I haven't done a search on your skeptism on past life regression. I did read all the way to the bottom of the post and your asterix points.

      Your emotional state is something you clearly communicated. I feel this, I am having a crisis of faith, so yes, whether it really happened, matters, because if you didn't happen, why would you feel x?

      I wasn't questioning using modern thought on the General, I was pointing out that outcomes are varied, and should be taken into thought. Ie the Tapestry or doors point. That the General had options, and as a General he should know the dangers of politics.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_history_of_the_Roman_military
      http://ancient-rome.com/law_f.htm
      http://www.vroma.org/~bmcmanus/spartacus.html
      http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~rauhn/Rome_ethos.htm

      Britain was invaded by Caesar but it wasn't fully done until Claudius Caligula's successor. So ok Britannica wasn't an option but there were other options.

      Ok now lets look at the time period of the Germanic wars. http://www.heritage-history.com/www/heritage.php?Dir=wars&FileName=wars_romangerman.php

      We start with Augustus, where Drusus won victories. Germanicus did as well but Tiberius offed him and his wife and several children, and trained Caligula to be a nucking futz emperor. Germanic tribes weren't really conquered until Charlemagne.

      It also wasn't all that long ago that Brutus with other senators had killed Caesar, leading to Rome being ruled by two(Octavius who becomes Augustus) and Marc Anthony)
      So yes I do question the General in your account. Why does he have the expectation that he would be left alone, see links above? This would make a lot more sense if say he was a Legionnaire. http://historum.com/ancient-history/11340-sex-lives-roman-soldiers.html It was Augustus who said they coudln't marry until the 25 years was up and that was likely due to the defeat by the Germans. After your service you got perks, usually land and could lead a quiet life.

      How am I being historically inaccurate again? I"ll answer the rest of this later.

      Delete
    4. I am not lying. dis·in·gen·u·ous
      ˌdisinˈjenyo͞oəs/Submit
      adjective
      1.
      not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.
      synonyms: insincere, dishonest, untruthful, false, deceitful, duplicitous, lying, mendacious; More

      This is for me a lesson on how to do critical thinking. It isn't something that I see people talk about in the Pagan community. We see a lot about keeping to the lore in recon stuff, but how to really apply it, I have yet to see it. So yes, I took your thing and applied what I would do, to see whether it was true or something else. That is not being candid, or playing like I know less, when I really know more.

      If we as a community do not do this you get places like spells of magic, and people actually believing that crap. Then getting butt hurt when someone actually questions them.

      I took theoretical questions(and I may have misread the whole past life regression because it looked like that to me) and applied it to your story, because it resonates as a lesson better.

      Delete
    5. And no I didn't question whether your experience happened, I pointed out ways to say whether it existed in the historical past or was something designed to impart a lesson.

      And for your information I did actually ask people I knew, to read this over and let me know if it was too bitchy. I only let you know what I wrote because I was talking about your stuff and it's the right thing to do.

      I probably went a little heavy on needing time to grieve, reading it over again, but this happened on halloween and you imparted stuff on the 3rd of november if I remember the post, I think it's still pertinent.

      Delete
    6. Right the whole devotion offering drama llama, has me thinking, I need to offer you an apology. I don't think my intent was wrong, but I damn well could have gone about it more tactfully(maybe, tact is really hard for me)

      so anyway

      I'm sorry.

      Delete
  2. SRA stuff to ponder
    http://www.answers.org/satan/Sra.html
    http://www.stopbadtherapy.com/myths/sra.shtml
    http://www.skepdic.com/repress.html
    This is a personal story, http://faculty.washington.edu/eloftus/Articles/sciam.htm
    https://webfiles.uci.edu/eloftus/LoftusInSternbergDangersOfMemory03.pdf

    Now apply this to past life regression.

    ReplyDelete